Joe Grundy

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Posts by Joe Grundy

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  31

  Smoking

  by FL_Panthers in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i heard that the witnesses used to smoke back in the day.

  is this true?

  if so, what was the reasoning behind this?.

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  Joe Grundy

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/83684/1/The-Tobacco-Bombshell#.U2qk73a0R9k
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  31

  Smoking

  by FL_Panthers in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i heard that the witnesses used to smoke back in the day.

  is this true?

  if so, what was the reasoning behind this?.

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  Joe Grundy

  I believe that if you use the 'search' facilty here you'll find posts relating to the ban on smoking being introduced by WT (mid 70s?) and the deadline given to JW tobacco farmers to give up thei farms/change crops or face the consequences. I don't think that I'm imagining this - it was a big thing at the time IIRC.
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  11

  Bible Authority - A Cop-Out?

  by Joe Grundy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  mentions in other threads 'inspired' me to consider this point.. this is a quote from paul's jwfacts site about christadelphians (not a million miles removed from jws):.

  "the bible is god's word and the only message from him.

  it is without error, except for copying and translation errors.".

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  Joe Grundy

  Bartelby's just fine, thank 'ee, better than me with me old farmer's lung (cough, cough). And all that cafuffle with the wedding that wasn't but at least me and Edddie got a few drinks out of it ...
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  11

  Bible Authority - A Cop-Out?

  by Joe Grundy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  mentions in other threads 'inspired' me to consider this point.. this is a quote from paul's jwfacts site about christadelphians (not a million miles removed from jws):.

  "the bible is god's word and the only message from him.

  it is without error, except for copying and translation errors.".

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  Joe Grundy

  "Then it's not without error."

  Exactly right, of course - and that's why I was surprised to see this statement from a group/sect/cult that holds the bible in such high esteem. I can only surmise that as in so many similar groups the adherents either don't stop to think about this or if they do think better of raising questions for fear of the consequences.

  I find it fascinating in terms of social anthropology (in an amateur way), most especially in groups where whole lives are determined by strict doctrinal adherence to particular interpretations of unreliable texts. Happens in all religions, of course, not least the myriad of islamic sects.
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  11

  Bible Authority - A Cop-Out?

  by Joe Grundy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  mentions in other threads 'inspired' me to consider this point.. this is a quote from paul's jwfacts site about christadelphians (not a million miles removed from jws):.

  "the bible is god's word and the only message from him.

  it is without error, except for copying and translation errors.".

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  Joe Grundy

  Mentions in other threads 'inspired' me to consider this point.

  This is a quote from Paul's JWFacts site about Christadelphians (not a million miles removed from JWs):

  "The Bible is God's word and the only message from him. It is without error, except for copying and translation errors."

  That opens a can of worms, doesn't it?

  Another recent thread prompted me to watch the Bart Ehrman youtube lecture 'Misquoting Jesus' on copying and translating errors - fascinating - and led me to the (not original) thought that once one allows for 'copying and translation errors' combined with deciding which bits were literal and wich allegorical (144,000 anybody?) - let alone later 'corrective interpolations' - one can just about make the Bible say anything one wants.

  I was brought up in the Plymouth Brethren where there are no clergy but every 'brother' (keep quiet, sisters!) is expected to be his own student and unsurprisingly their history is characterised (as so many cults/sects of the time) by doctrinal splits. (JWs avoided this by rigid centralised authority a la Rutherford). Well-meaning in the most part but hopelessly under-educated in the most important part of their lives (religion) and prepared to make other peoples' lives a misery because of their own unbending beliefs.

  And, of course, to question is to put oneself beyond the pale.

  Sad, in so many ways.
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  29

  Suggestion for JWFacts

  by ILoveTTATT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have a suggestion for jwfacts, and to help make the article easier to write for paul, the collective jwn community can help.. in his article of "religions similar to jehovah's witnesses",.

  http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/similar-religions-to-jehovahs-witnesses.php.

  paul uses mormons, cristadelphians, etc.... i suggest he also use iglesia ni cristo.

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  Joe Grundy

  I hope that no-one takes offence at this - it's not meant to be offensive, merely recounting my experiences.

  I lived in Cyprus 2005-2010 and had many friends in the filipino community there, including a Filipina fiancee and a Filipina who became my ex-wife no. 2. Religion was very important to very many of them, but it didn't seem to matter too much which religion it was as long as there was a sense of community and (importantly) a good social scene. Not surprising, of course, in a mistreated and expoilted community of ex-pats which the Filipinas surely were.

  Most I spoke to had no idea of even the basics of the creed they subscribed to and were equally happy in the most orthodox RC church and the most charismatic pentecostilist protestant groups. It was far more about the social and supportive side of things.

  Which, come to think about it, isn't so much different from many adherents to whatever religion, including JWs. Ask specific questions about the particular doctrines and beliefs of 'their' group and how they differ and you're unlikely (IME) to get a cogent and succinct response.

  In particular reference to this religion, when one considers the pinoy diaspora (almost universally an exploited minority) it isn't surprising that it proliferates.
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  11

  Sausage or Bacon?

  by Quarterback in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when bethel serves pancakes, do they give you a choice?

  is it only 1 choice.

  it sure would be a deal breaker for me if i didn't get to choose between bacon, or sausages.

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  Joe Grundy

  This is, sadly, where our American cousins go wrong.

  A 'proper' breakfast is: two sausages, two rashers of smoked bacon ('Canadian' I think they call it), mushrooms, black pudding, grilled tomato, baked beans, two fried eggs, fried bread, served with toast and strong tea.

  And for the 'real deal' - if you're Welsh - laver bread rolled in oatmeal and fried in the bacon fat.

  Now THAT'S a breakfast.
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  28

  Deuteronomy 22:28,29. Thank Jebus nobody pays attention to this f*cked up part of "God's inspired word" any more.

  by DuvanMuvan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  28 if a man happens to meet a virgin girl who is not engaged and he seizes her and lies down with her and they are discovered,+29 the man who lay down with her must give the girls father 50 silver shekels, and she will become his wife.+ because he humiliated her, he will not be allowed to divorce her as long as he lives.

  " -nwt 2013 revised edition.

  was just on the thread about lot and his messed up family life and was reminded of another part of the bible that made me feel physically sick the first time i read it.

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  Joe Grundy

  Marked
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  4

  'Memorial Invitation' Delivery

  by Joe Grundy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  mine was delivered today.

  (they are cheap and crap leaflets, aren't they?

  i wasn't in the mood and didn't have time for a discussion, but no worries, neither did they.

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  Joe Grundy

  Mine was delivered today. (They are cheap and crap leaflets, aren't they? Quite apart from anything else.)

  I wasn't in the mood and didn't have time for a discussion, but no worries, neither did they. Two pleasant ladies of indeterminate age, could have been 30s up. 'Sensibly dressed' (couple of steps up from Amish).

  Said 'We don't want to take your time, here's an invitation' and they were gone.

  Another tick in the box, I suppose.
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  132

  the bible and its prophecies

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have been doing a lot of research on the bible and its roots so to speak and its becoming clearer that the jews like other races took gods and stories from others and made them their own.

  its also become clear that many of the books were written later then stated, like daniel probably written about a hundred years before christ and some of it maybe even after.

  but what i don't get is the prophecies.

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  Joe Grundy

  "

  I’ve found that when people reject the gospel message and become embittered, that they lose all perspective. Atheists also lose the ability to act in their own self interest as well as their own self worth. It’s also almost inevitable, because suddenly life has no meaning. They spend the rest of their lives kicking against the pricks, so to speak, completely confident that when life is over there’s nothing. They see religion as a form of self deception — a mirage on the horizon with form but no substance. Each one creates his or her own values and concepts of morality, each of which can be dispensed with should it become necessary. And in my entire life, I’ve never seen an atheist who was selfless, loving of his fellow man, noble, virtuous, inspiring, imbued with integrity or having the ability to mete out justice balanced with mercy. One need only look at the recent crop: Dawkins, Hitchens, Madalyn Murray O’Hair, Margaret Sanger, Bill Maher and many others, and their idea of helping out their fellow man is to tear down crosses, eliminate the ten commandments from schools and state property and, oh yes, provide free abortions to whoever wants one. It’s very rare that you’ll find one in a soup kitchen or on a suicide hotline.

  So it shouldn’t be a surprise that atheists on this site tend to be bitter, self-serving, arrogant know-it-alls who frequently spout off their own opinions without bothering to elucidate them with substantive facts. They reduce anything they don’t like to it’s lowest common denominator and then they try to hack it apart, all the while ballyhooing their own baseless opinions as if their merits were self evident. Some have even publicly declared themselves to be “brights” as opposed to the stupid, run-of-the-mill saps who cling to their Bibles and their guns.

  These goigts have a right to their views, of course, but it’s their rudeness and insufferable lack of tolerance that makes them so delightful to be around and to engage in friendly banter. So don’t let anyone tell you atheism isn’t a religion. It’s a religion that seizes upon one’s mind and ultimately makes a person spiritually enfeebled in the process. This causes them to think religion degrades a person (as is evident from the posts on this forum), but in the end it really makes them curmudgeons."

  As an atheist, I could (if I cared enough) be offended by this nonsensical, deluded, load of bollocks.

  And that's about enough of a reply as it warrants.